I didn't quite get how the Yamnaya Y chromosomes could be universal throughout the whole of Europe if the Yamnaya expansion stopped at a certain point (on the Hungarian steppe?), beyond which the Corded Ware and Bell Beaker peoples became dominant, replacing the resident neolithic populations in England and elsewhere in Western Europe.
That is to say, how did the Corded Ware and Bell Beaker tribes get their Yamnaya Y chromosomes in the first place if their ancestors had not previously been in contact with and possibly conquered by the Yamnaya?
Was it just a case of the Yamnaya female mitochondrial DNA ceasing to spread beyond Hungary, in which case it would have been only Yamnaya males who continued migrating westward, interbreeding with the native female populations they encountered, completely replacing the native male Y chromosomes in the process? Or what?
[I should add that during neolithic times distinct pottery styles were generally the badge of distinct female populations, since women made pots, in which case Corded Ware and Bell Beaker might possibly suggest two distinct surviving female populations.But really all of this is way above my pay grade.]
I also noticed that there was no mention of the lack of ancient DNA from Mesopotamia, where civilization began. I'm sure plenty of people would like to know more about that. In particular, who were the Sumerians and where did they come from?
These quibbles aside, that was a fascinating conversation with the one person you would want to hear it from most.
If you read his book (which is great and I highly recommend), it seems like he really seems to play down a lot of gender splits like this in his results summarizations, likely because they're the ones that engender the most pushback and cultural outrage, with India being a particular example.
But I agree, I think the per-gender splits are the most interesting part, because it definitely seems the median case is Y chromosome replacement - some group of men with better technology and / or a better war cultural package roll in and slaughter all the men and breed with all the remaining women.
I particularly wish he'd gone more into some of the evidence around him saying there's signs of groups of women migrating and their mitochondrial dna dominating the groups they find - sounds like a really interesting story, and I wonder how rare that is vs the typical Y chromosome one - I'd assume we have like 1 example of that for every 10 Y ones, but would be really interested to hear otherwise.
When I read this part it seems he doesn’t actually think there is evidence that the latter is actually happening but is unable to say that for politically correct reasons. Like he will say all this stuff about modern biases of male dominance not always being the case but then he will describe what the genetic evidence shows and it is completely incongruent with female choice, female emigration, or any kind of matriarchal culture and is completely consistent with a group of men slaughtering all the males and impregnating all the females but he cannot expressly say this, you need to read between the lines.
Rereading, I think you're right. I was initially interpreting this line:
"Females from farmers and females from Yamnaya are being absorbed into the Corded Ware community. Then they expand further."
As those Yamnaya / farmer females mitochondrial DNA expanding and taking a larger fraction of the Corded Ware people's mitochondrial genome share, but in context, it seems more likely the expansion was the usual "Corded Ware males go and slaughter more people and take their lands and women."
I didn't quite get how the Yamnaya Y chromosomes could be universal throughout the whole of Europe if the Yamnaya expansion stopped at a certain point (on the Hungarian steppe?), beyond which the Corded Ware and Bell Beaker peoples became dominant, replacing the resident neolithic populations in England and elsewhere in Western Europe.
That is to say, how did the Corded Ware and Bell Beaker tribes get their Yamnaya Y chromosomes in the first place if their ancestors had not previously been in contact with and possibly conquered by the Yamnaya?
Was it just a case of the Yamnaya female mitochondrial DNA ceasing to spread beyond Hungary, in which case it would have been only Yamnaya males who continued migrating westward, interbreeding with the native female populations they encountered, completely replacing the native male Y chromosomes in the process? Or what?
[I should add that during neolithic times distinct pottery styles were generally the badge of distinct female populations, since women made pots, in which case Corded Ware and Bell Beaker might possibly suggest two distinct surviving female populations.But really all of this is way above my pay grade.]
I also noticed that there was no mention of the lack of ancient DNA from Mesopotamia, where civilization began. I'm sure plenty of people would like to know more about that. In particular, who were the Sumerians and where did they come from?
These quibbles aside, that was a fascinating conversation with the one person you would want to hear it from most.
If you read his book (which is great and I highly recommend), it seems like he really seems to play down a lot of gender splits like this in his results summarizations, likely because they're the ones that engender the most pushback and cultural outrage, with India being a particular example.
But I agree, I think the per-gender splits are the most interesting part, because it definitely seems the median case is Y chromosome replacement - some group of men with better technology and / or a better war cultural package roll in and slaughter all the men and breed with all the remaining women.
I particularly wish he'd gone more into some of the evidence around him saying there's signs of groups of women migrating and their mitochondrial dna dominating the groups they find - sounds like a really interesting story, and I wonder how rare that is vs the typical Y chromosome one - I'd assume we have like 1 example of that for every 10 Y ones, but would be really interested to hear otherwise.
When I read this part it seems he doesn’t actually think there is evidence that the latter is actually happening but is unable to say that for politically correct reasons. Like he will say all this stuff about modern biases of male dominance not always being the case but then he will describe what the genetic evidence shows and it is completely incongruent with female choice, female emigration, or any kind of matriarchal culture and is completely consistent with a group of men slaughtering all the males and impregnating all the females but he cannot expressly say this, you need to read between the lines.
Rereading, I think you're right. I was initially interpreting this line:
"Females from farmers and females from Yamnaya are being absorbed into the Corded Ware community. Then they expand further."
As those Yamnaya / farmer females mitochondrial DNA expanding and taking a larger fraction of the Corded Ware people's mitochondrial genome share, but in context, it seems more likely the expansion was the usual "Corded Ware males go and slaughter more people and take their lands and women."